Because we get asked about how to stop eating cheese so often, I figured I’d post this here prior to version 2.0 coming out. The gist of our argument — which we explain in much more depth in the book itself — is this: to go vegan, just do it cold tofu, and stop eating animal products today. Your tastes can change in as little as a few weeks, and if you give things up right away, you’ll miss them less than if you’re always just making bargains with yourself for a little bit of the forbidden food. In what’s below, we discuss why giving up cheese could be hard, and what you should think of in your moments of weakness.
Though not cheating is easy for a lot of foods, some people find giving up cheese particularly difficult. For us, it wasn’t hard. We just went vegan one day, and didn’t look back, but for a lot of people we’ve talked to, cheese is the lone item that often still has its hooks in them. So many people have complained to us about how hard it was to give up cheese that we almost felt like we needed to set up some kind of support group in the basement of an area church where we served burnt coffee (with soy creamer) and let people talk about how many days cheese-clean they’ve been. Frankly, the whole thing was perplexing for us until we read up on casomorphins, or opioid chemicals that are present in cow’s milk (and by extension, very much present in cheese). Evolutionarily, these peptides probably had the function of creating a positive association between the calf and its mother and her milk. Now, however, humans consume more cow’s milk than calves do, and – improbable though it sounds – those who consume large amounts of dairy products are probably mildly addicted to them. It isn’t like you’re going to get the DTs or have seizures if you give up cheese, but certainly, these opiate effects can help to explain the more than mild cravings that lots of people have. A study underway during the time we were writing this book is looking at how casomorphins work in the human body, operating under the functional hypothesis that because cheese is one of the most commonly craved foods, it may be exerting mild opiate effects on its consumers. If this hypothesis is true the correct solution isn’t weaning yourself from crackcheeese slowly. As we suggest above, that would probably only lead you back to eating more cheese. The right solution is to stop eating cheese now, and to make an agreement with yourself never to eat it again. If you feel tempted to eat it, slide a paperclip over this page, and when you’re on the verge of eating cheese, come back here and remind yourself of these disgusting cheese facts:
- Cheese is made from milk, and milk almost always contains pus. You may comfort yourself by thinking that the pus is pasteurized, and certainly, pasteurization will prevent you from becoming ill, but you’re still eating pus. Look at it like this: you could stick a dog turd in an autoclave and render it biologically harmless with significant pressure and heat. Yet, we’re willing to wager that you’d not be anxious to eat it unless you have some very strange proclivities indeed.
- Forget about being vegan – most cheeses aren’t even vegetarian. Rennet, a stomach enzyme common to most mammals, is used to make cheese by “digesting” it, leaving behind a solid and a liquid. Rennet is often harvested from the stomachs of cattle in slaughterhouses, and used directly in cheese. Though there are vegetarian rennets synthesized by other means, it is difficult to know which cheeses use vegetarian rennet and which cheeses use the stuff scraped out of the stomachs of slaughtered animals. Yum! Cow stomach excretions obviously go great with pus!
- In order for you to have your beloved cheese, someone had to produce the milk to make the cheese, and we don’t mean a dairy farmer. The someone in this case is a nameless dairy cow, identified only by a number and probably an radio frequency identification tag in her ear that helps the slave ownerfarmer track her productivity so he can send her to slaughter once she underproduces. In the larger dairy operations, this cow may never go outside, and she will repeatedly give birth to calves who will be stolen from her almost immediately after they are born. She will live a short and miserable life, and end up as hamburger on the plate of some fast food consumer, all because you could not find the guts up to stop eating cheese or drinking milk. And you say you care about animals?
- Beyond being a disaster for cows, cheese is a disaster for you. A cup of diced cheddar has a whopping 532 calories, 385 of which come from fat. That includes 28 grams of saturated fat, which is 139% of amount recommended for total daily consumption by the United States government. And really, do you think those figures haven’t already been manipulated by decades of dairy and meat industry intervention in the government? To all that fat, you can add 139 milligrams of cholesterol and 820 mg of sodium. For comparison, if you decided to reach for a cup of chopped carrots instead, you’d be taking in fewer than a tenth of the total calories (52 calories for the whole cup) and less than 1 percent of the fat (3 calories versus 385 calories) than if you ate the cheese.
Cheese may taste good to you now, but really, like every other animal product, there’s no good reason to eat it. It is bad for you and bad for the animals that have to make the raw ingredients that go into it. Give it up now, call it quits, and go cold tofu. If you can do that, maybe you can come to our cheese-eaters anonymous meetings, sip some bad coffee, and tell us how many days you’ve been clean.
{ 1 trackback }
{ 29 comments }
i am so exvited for V. 2 … thanks for the excerpt
Thanks for your excitement! We are looking forward to having it out.
“Yum! Cow stomach excretions obviously go great with pus!”
And people think eating broccoli is weird.
Nice article. Cheese was one of my all time favorite foods throughout my life — but when I decided to go vegan 10 months ago, I didn't look back and didn't miss it. I agree that it helps a lot to think about how nasty the stuff really is and what it does to your body– now cheese just grosses me out– thinking about all that saturated fat clogging my arteries…
I do think that some common plant vegan based foods are far more addictive though (think chocolate, coffee, tobacco, alcohol… ok.. maybe they aren't all foods…)
I think another reason new vegans have such trouble giving up cheese is that they just aren't very imaginative. Cheese has a very savory and satisfying texture, and flavor, which is comparable in a lot of ways, IMHO with guacomole, hummus, or even tofu with the right spices and of course salt. I've placed these (along with a little salsa) on top of my baked potatos instead of melted cheese, and it's as satisfying as ever, if not more so.
I recently tried Teese and it just tasted like a goopy nasty mess of over processed fake food… I wonder if it's because I completely broke the cheese habit or because it's not a good imitation (I was expecting it to be awesome based on the raves that I'd heard about it in the vegan community.)
Didn't mean to ramble on this much… but oh well…
Keep up the great work and I can't wait till VF2.0 comes out.
Excellent article. Very factual, encouraging, and well written!
Great post! I'm moving myself to a vegan lifestyle and I thought I would miss cheese, but I really don't. Whenever it's around I just remind myself that if it wasn't right in front of me, I wouldn't want it and I won't miss it when it's gone. I think what makes cheese difficult is that we live in a world where people kind of worship it and it's always around us and in everything, so we're constantly reminded of what we're missing.
Perhaps going vegan with another person helps? People often quit smoking together, why not pick a cheese-quitting buddy?
While technically accurate and add to the fact that I basically agree with this argument, the writing is too much of a knee-jerk hostile stance. I am not a vegetarian, the wife is and while at home I only prepare vegetarian dishes for us but it is these types of articles that have me wondering about the soundness of mind or maturity of vegans.
I volunteer on an all-natural fruit and vegetable farm and have come to learn that the vegan quest of not harming other creatures is hollow at best. There is NO way to farm on a small scale producing all-natural or organic produce without the farmer being forced to kill mice, rats, moles, gophers, squirrels, various other rodents, and some birds – so your vegan diet has consequences. Your diet kills animals too. Find a life in balance. I am not exactly happy that I haven't given up meat but I have reduced it to no more than once a day and more and more frequently it is but three to five of my weekly meals.
The hostility of animal rights people does nothing to convince those of us who were brought up on SAD, (Standard American Diet ) to have sympathies that may help change our ways when your ranting makes us pull away from your otherwise sound argument – I'd prefer a friendly discussion in its place.
There's nothing knee-jerk about what we've written above. Instead, it is based upon years of study and a careful analysis of what animal agriculture means. I assure you, I don't come at this knowing nothing about the topic; I have a degree in agricultural sciences, and to get that degree, I had to learn all about animal agriculture, from the smallest scale up to the largest industrialized farms. Later, turning my attention to these systems of production from the economic and sociological perspective I learned through my years of study to get my Ph.D., I came to understand them for what they were: exploitative, harmful, and injurious to people, animals, and the environment. (I wrote about animal agriculture from this perspective extensively in my book Making A Killing.)
I know you think your idea about the “vegan quest” being “hollow” is somehow original, but it isn't. It is a critique I've heard many times, and the criticism shows only that you don't understand what veganism is about. That's understandable. Lots of people don't get it. But your obvious hostility just gets in the way of your understanding. So, if you can chill out for a minute or two and stop being defensive about what you're eating, let me explain: in a world like ours, there is no perfection, and there never can be. Every vegan should recognize that there's nothing that's harmless. There is no doubt great ecological waste laid to land for the monocultural production of crops that vegans eat, and some field animals are killed, and their habitats are probably destroyed. Veganism isn't about and cannot be about total purity; that's nuts. It is about doing the best one can given the constraints that society places upon us. Within those constraints, if one wishes to be do the least harm to animals, veganism is the obvious solution. To put it another way, it seems you would rather that vegans throw out the whole project because they cannot achieve total purity. That's insane. Instead of doing that, we take the position that we do the things that create the least possible harm. In that sense, the few field mice killed per tons of grain produced is obviously regrettable, but unfortunately, a side-effect of a system in which our choices are meaningfully constrained. By choosing to eat plants over animals, though, we vegans work to reduce these problems. We'd never think that our diet does not have consequences. Any diet has consequences; we just wish to limit those consequences as effectively as we can.
I'm not sure where you get the notion that we're ranting, because we're not. What we present are facts that are amply documented. I did not include our sources here because footnotes are ugly in blog entries, but they are in the book, and in my other work on these topics, I've been careful to cite my sources. There's nothing ranty here. It is, instead, a considered position that comes from years of study and experience, including teaching these topics at the University level.
Truth is, if anyone is knee-jerk, it seems to be you. You come here questioning the “soundness of mind” of me and my co-author, and our “maturity.” And then you ask for a “friendly discussion?” I'm no expert on manners, but there's a passing argument to be made that few “friendly discussions” begin by insulting your interlocutors. In sum, unlike you, I'm not merely defensive about my positions. I have logical explanations for everything I promote and everything I do; if I did not, I'd not be doing what I'm doing, and I'd never have decided to go vegan. It looks a lot like your defensiveness is showing here, and while I understand where you're at — I used to be a morally indignant semi-vegetarian, too — there's no reason to come here, question my sanity and soundness of mind, and call me “hostile,” when, as far as I can tell, you're the one with some hostility issues.
Whatever path you end up taking, good luck. And remember, vegans aren't the only people with a lock on the hubris of moral indignation.
Seriously. Sometimes I wonder how the world got this fucked up.
Indeed, plant foods and drinks can be mildly addictive
But you have no idea how often we hear the cheese refrain! Back when we had a public email address, it generated probably a quarter of the email we received. It was a bit mind-boggling.
Nevertheless, you are right that many vegan foods can successfully fill the gap. It is also pretty trivial to make vegan cheese substitutes, especially in sauces. But barring those, I'm actually pretty happy with Teese — maybe I'm just easy to please — and I think Cheezly is a wonderful substitute for the rare times I still want something cheese-like.
Thanks!
I think it'd be a great idea to have a vegan buddy, but for lots of people, that may or may not be possible. You're right that we're surrounded by it, so at first, it can be hard. But I think that after a few weeks, or maybe at the outside a few months, of veganism, people's tastes change, and the notion of real cheese can be kind of foreign and even a little bit disgusting.
There's nothing knee-jerk about what we've written above. Instead, it is
based upon years of study and a careful analysis of what animal agriculture
means. I assure you, I don't come at this knowing nothing about the topic; I
have a degree in agricultural sciences, and to get that degree, I had to
learn all about animal agriculture, from the smallest scale up to the
largest industrialized farms. Later, turning my attention to these systems
of production from the economic and sociological perspective I learned
through my years of study to get my Ph.D., I came to understand them for
what they were: exploitative, harmful, and injurious to people, animals, and
the environment. (I wrote about animal agriculture from this perspective
extensively in my book Making A Killing.)
I know you think your idea about the “vegan quest” being “hollow” is somehow
original, but it isn't. It is a critique I've heard many times, and the
criticism shows only that you don't understand what veganism is about.
That's understandable. Lots of people don't get it. But your obvious
hostility just gets in the way of your understanding. So, if you can chill
out for a minute or two and stop being defensive about what you're eating,
let me explain: in a world like ours, there is no perfection, and there
never can be. Every vegan should recognize that there's nothing that's
harmless. There is no doubt great ecological waste laid to land for the
monocultural production of crops that vegans eat, and some field animals are
killed, and their habitats are probably destroyed. Veganism isn't about and
cannot be about total purity; that's nuts. It is about doing the best one
can given the constraints that society places upon us. Within those
constraints, if one wishes to be do the least harm to animals, veganism is
the obvious solution. To put it another way, it seems you would rather that
vegans throw out the whole project because they cannot achieve total purity.
That's insane. Instead of doing that, we take the position that we do the
things that create the least possible harm. In that sense, the few field
mice killed per tons of grain produced is obviously regrettable, but
unfortunately, a side-effect of a system in which our choices are
meaningfully constrained. By choosing to eat plants over animals, though, we
vegans work to reduce these problems. We'd never think that our diet does
not have consequences. Any diet has consequences; we just wish to limit
those consequences as effectively as we can.
I'm not sure where you get the notion that we're ranting, because we're not.
What we present are facts that are amply documented. I did not include our
sources here because footnotes are ugly in blog entries, but they are in the
book, and in my other work on these topics, I've been careful to cite my
sources. There's nothing ranty here. It is, instead, a considered position
that comes from years of study and experience, including teaching these
topics at the University level.
Truth is, if anyone is knee-jerk, it seems to be you. You come here
questioning the “soundness of mind” of me and my co-author, and our
“maturity.” And then you ask for a “friendly discussion?” I'm no expert on
manners, but there's a passing argument to be made that few “friendly
discussions” begin by insulting your interlocutors. In sum, unlike you, I'm
not merely defensive about my positions. I have logical explanations for
everything I promote and everything I do; if I did not, I'd not be doing
what I'm doing, and I'd never have decided to go vegan. It looks a lot like
your defensiveness is showing here, and while I understand where you're at
– I used to be a morally indignant semi-vegetarian, too — there's no
reason to come here, question my sanity and soundness of mind, and call me
“hostile,” when, as far as I can tell, you're the one with some hostility
issues.
Whatever path you end up taking, good luck. And remember, vegans aren't the
only people with a lock on the hubris of moral indignation.
i'm definitely in this crowd, and i actually know all of this stuff, except the pus thing, and that grossed me the fuck out.
currently i'm out of cheese. i'm going to not buy cheese next time i grocery shop and see how it works out.
you should put some info up about vegan cheese alternatives. i've tried a couple, but they aren't that good.
Excellent job, Freaks! I've been loving your podcasts and books for quite a while. Cheese was tough for me to give up when I went vegan years ago, so I know where all the complaints come from. You summed up the whole subject really well.
I love your response here, I think it is very thoughtful and logical. I also liked your essay and agree with all of your points and thought you had great information. I wanted to pass it on, but I too thought it got ranty towards the end, for example the phrases “your beloved cheese” & “the slave ownerfarmer” and I didn't think offending non vegans would help so while JW was wrong and overly defensive I can see where he was coming from.
Thanks. But remember, it is an excerpt from a larger book, and as such, it is decontextualized.
As for “slave-owning farmer,” I'm not sure how else to explain someone who holds another living being as property. There's nothing ranty there: it is an observation about the honest legal and factual relationship of the farmer (a property owner) to his property (the cows). We can talk about cows euphemistically, but when we get down to it, they're living beings producing profit for another without being rewarded for it. That's slavery, plain and simple. This is a relationship we explore more in the book, so it may be a bit decontextualized here, but I assure you, there's no rant behind it at all. A rant implies that I'm wild, and that I've lost rationality. Nothing could be less true. I'm not wild; these things are rational observations based on facts. I'd challenge anyone to dispute them, because in most of the world, this basic legal relationship between a farmer and “livestock” holds.
As for “beloved cheese,” the context of the above, as I stated at the outset, is to help would-be vegans who love cheese to give it up. “Beloved” is a valid way to describe something that someone loves.
The idea that something is or is not ranty is subjective. But certainly, the facts here are solid, and if some people feel judged by making the relationships that humans have with animals plain, then I'm not sure how to sugar-coat that, because I think what we need is honesty about these things, including the honesty to treat readers like adults who can handle the truth spoken plainly.
There's only one way to go: give that shit up! Seriously. Stop eating it now, and make a deal with yourself that you won't do it for a few weeks at least, if you can't bring yourself to make a deal yourself that you won't do it forever.
During that time, try out other vegan foods, and don't go for the cheese alternatives. They won't be that good to you. In a few weeks, if you stop eating cheese and dairy, you will find that your tastes for it will change; it'll probably stop looking as good, and certainly, it'll start to smell funnier.
At that point, you probably won't be as tempted to go back to it. If you are, remind yourself of the problems with it before you buy it or eat it.
(We go into more depth about the hows and whys of this approach in the book.)
As for the alternatives, they're not going to be perfect to you now if you're still eating regular cheese. Give yourself a month without real cheese, and then try out cheezly if you miss a cheddar, or Teese or Follow your heart if you need mozzarella. Granted, none are perfect substitutes, but this is really a tiny thing in exchange for what veganism does for you and for animals.
Thanks! We can't wait to have the second edition out.
My apologies for coming across defensive, that was not my intent, nor was it to impune the author. My lament was more a generalization regarding vegans, maybe not nice in its own right but it is what it is. As far as calling elements of the article hostile, specifically I was referencing things like the conjecture and implying that “casomorphins” have something to do with cheese addiction. As recently as 2007 casomorphin understaning regarding the biochemistry and pharmacology is incomplete and it has been suggested that our human digestion may break down casomorphins into inactive dipeptides. In any case there is no proof that bovine casomorphins play a role in our taste for cheese.
The reference to pus, “almost always contains pus” why the uncertainty for an author so intent on being an being an authority? On one hand you try to frighten people with the idea that they are consuming pus but then you turn around and admit there is no illness associated with consuming pasteurized pus – is there any documentation regarding dangers associated with consuming pus? Not that I want to consume it either but our vegetable use various manures and no one is suggesting we are eating excrement that the plant uptakes.
Rennet, most industrial cheesemaking in North America uses GMO-Microbial rennet because it is less expensive than animal rennet. GMO-Microbial rennet is not an animal product. While I disagree with the use of genetically modified ornamisms, this is just one more point in why I called this knee-jerk and immature.
Some farmers do care for the animals in their care and the cheeses made by these artisans most likely surpass the living conditions of factory farmed animals and although I can agree that this is still animal exploitation I take umbrage with the language of fear regarding slave ownerfarmer, radio frequency identification tag, that the cows never go outside and after a short miserable life the cow becomes hamburger. This impunes thoughtful considerate producers at the expense of making a dramatic point and education people with facts not fear.
My biggest complaint is the suggestion that industry intervention in the government has somehow manipulated the true calorie count and fat content of cheese. What backs this up? Conjecture? Mistrust for large systems? How did these industries coerce universities, other governments, and independent agencies to go along with this conspiracy to hide the true disasterous health ramifications of evil cheese?
Hubris indeed.
Quick responses:
1. The excerpt above is careful to say “if this hypothesis is true” in response to what is in the book a cited study underway pulled from a government grants database about the casomorpin connection. I don't have the citation in front of me now, but I can post it later when I have the file.
2. I cannot say for certain that all milk everywhere always contains pus. I can, however, say that most milk in most places will contain pus because of the nature of dairy production. Mastitis is a common condition in dairy herds, and pus is a by-product of the infection. Because the milk that 99%+ of consumers buy is pooled and aggregated prior to processing, most milk will thus likely contain pus. This is not something that I recall having been controversial in my dairy science classes, nor should it be controversial here. I don't get what the problem is: I say that the pus is biologically inactive, but there's still pus in the milk. Parse it however you want, but the metabolism of nutrients by plants is intrinsically different than the production of milk. In any case, the “uncertainty” is purposeful, because it is possible that some milk somewhere does not have pus in it. Nevertheless, if you know anything about modern dairy production, you'll know as well as I do that it is safe to say that pus is present in the vast majority of milk.
3. On the rennet issue, I'm not sure which part of “though there are vegetarian rennets synthesized by other means,” you did not understand. I know quite well that there are GMO rennets, but I also note that it is not always easy to find out which cheeses use these.
4. First, “impune” is spelled “impugn.” As for your bucolic vision of farming, there certainly are local farmers who treat their animals better than factory farms do. But the vast majority of all animals in production are animals in factory farms. Even if all animals were owned by farmers who treated them well, the essential problem would remain: animals are merely property, and as property, they have no interests that can ever override the interests of their owners. The facts of what I write are clear, and spelled out in so many places I'm not even sure where to begin to tell you to look. Indeed, these are the methods of dairy management I learned years ago as an undergrad. There's no denying that modern herd management uses RFIDs on cows. There's no denying that “spent” cows become hamburger and probably a million other parts. There's no denying that in many dairy operations — especially the larger ones that provide most of the milk most people drink — keep cows under a single roof for most of their lives. These are all facts, and if people find them abhorrent, that's good, because the situation is quite abhorrent. The little producer you prop up as some kind of model is the exception to the rule; even these producers themselves admit that, and that's part of their draw. If you look, you will see that I “education people”[sic] with facts.
5. I apologize if you misunderstood my part of my paragraph about the nutritional content of cheese. I said: “…which is 139% of amount recommended for total daily consumption by the United States government. And really, do you think those figures haven’t already been manipulated by decades of dairy and meat industry intervention in the government?” In the manipulation, I'm referring not to the scientifically observable calorie and fat content of cheese, but instead to the RDAs, which have always been a political tool. This is well-documented in many places, but probably the best summary of private-sphere influence in this kind of policy-making was written by Marion Nestle. The book is called “Food Politics.” I suggest you check it out.
Everything I write above is verifiable, and in the book itself, I do offer many references, as I do in the rest of my published writing. You may not like that modern animal agriculture operates the way it does, but I'm not sure what to say. I hate the way it and the rest of animal agriculture operates, so I have removed myself from that system to the greatest extent possible.
With that, I'm done with this pointless exercise. You obviously have no willingness to engage these arguments honestly or thoughtfully, and it seems clear to me that your arguing here is really just some kind of way for you to let out some kind of frustrations you have about “the wife” (your term) being a vegetarian. Instead of taking it out on us, you should take that up with her.
Oh, and learn how to spell “impugn.”
I agree with you, and it is very subjective. I was hoping that pointing out specific wordings might help. To someone that has learned a lot about animal farming operations “slave-owning farmer” is perfectly legitimate but for someone that hasn't done any research into this and only has an idealized version of happy cows living on green hills they read that and probably think the same thing as when I read some Republican calling Obama a fascist, that you have gone off the deep end.
Can't wait to read the book!
I'm one of those people that would have come to your support group meeting. I actually held off on reading this post for a minute because I wasn't sure I was ready to give it up. But I am now. Cheese free for me.
Thanks — though as I point out, there's a context for what's being said here, and the context is the book preceding what's above.
Truth is, the book takes as its audience people who are predisposed to the animal rights position. We assume that you'd not pick up a book on going vegan for ethical reasons unless you were interested in such a thing.
Regardless, we can't be everything to everyone, and we don't try to be. Thanks for the thoughts, and I hope you do enjoy the 2nd ed.
Cheezly, a vegan “cheese” that melts like the udder one is good on pizza and macaroni and such. That can help the cravings, perhaps
JW's quote: “There is NO way to farm on a small scale producing all-natural or organic produce without the farmer being forced to kill mice, rats, moles, gophers, squirrels, various other rodents, and some birds – so your vegan
diet has consequences. Your diet kills animals too.”
Veganic (vegan and organic) farmers are the pioneers of the vegan world right now. They are paving the way in using techniques that significantly minimize harming animals (no-till farming, green manures that do not use fertilizers with animal byproducts, acknowledging and allowing a certain percentage of crops to be eaten by wildlife as the result of encroaching on their habitat, etc.).
Veganic gardening and farming are very slowly catching on, though they are not catching on nearly as fast as they should among those who claim the desire not to harm animals. I wish more vegans (and most certainly those with high exposure and influence) were more loudly advocating and promoting this new way to grow food. There are scarce veganic farms here in the US, and that is because the only people in existence who are going to influence a rise in veganic farms are vegans themselves (not omnivores or vegetarians, that's for sure), and right now the subject doesn't seem to register high on the vegan community's agenda. So until all of us vegans start piping up about it, we will get what we don't ask for — organic farms that do not care much about the animals they kill (via machinary), exploit (by using fertilizers that consist of excrement from animals in factory farms), and enslave (using cows and chickens for closed-system manure for fertilizing crops or breeding them for profit as Happy Meat).
Veganic farming/gardening is the morally sound alternative to organic food. Why not start getting the word out about veganic farming so that more people (vegans at least) might actually be interested in starting veganic farms or gardens? We should be encouraging more people to grow their own food at home in their kitchen and garden — veganically. Why not dodge the cruel system imposed upon us as best we can? Or should we sit back and just accept a morally inferior mode of food production?
I don't agree much with what JW wrote, but the fact that he used the killing of animals on organic farms to dismiss veganism caused me to respond. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why those vegans who already know about veganic farms/gardens (and the cruelty of organic farms) are not trying to promote more awareness about it! It's not an idea that's going to detract from what we are already advocating, but rather enhance it and support it. In the least, we vegans should currently be discussing the topic at length — spreading awareness about it among ourselves, sharing thoughts/resources, and looking for ways to make it a complete reality. I fear that many vegans (in the know) think it's asking too much. To say it's asking too much to promote and participate in cruelty-free produce is like saying its too much to ask people to stop wearing leather belts or wool skirts (or all the other choices that we vegans are prepared to make in order to keep our actions aligned with our beliefs). Animals are dying and being exploited on organic farms without any concern on the part of the farmers. Every animal counts (whether from a factory farm or an organic farm). It's time we vegans wake up to the reality.
I know if an icon among the vegan community, like Francione, started to become more vocal about veganic farms/food, that would be the moment awareness would shoot through the roof and spread pretty quickly among the vegan (online) community (and then beyond). If someone promotes veganic ways in their outreach, it doesn't mean that it is imperative that the person has to start eating veganically grown food overnight in order to be considered true to their morals. I know some people don't have the time to start their own veganic garden, and there are few people who have access to produce from veganic farms. But perhaps, in the least, by spreading the the idea, the movement will start gathering proper momentum so that more information about veganic gardening, more veganic farms, and more evolving ideas will become more readily accessible. The sooner we start talking about it, the sooner more veganic farms are going to start emerging. If we don't ask for it or talk about it, nothing will happen.
Sorry – I know that a discussion on cheese is not exactly the proper place to present ideas on veganic farming. But I thought JW might like to know that there are alternatives to organic farming that are becoming more and more aligned with vegan ideals. I see it as an ever evolving process. I think abolitionists are doing a great job getting the word out about veganism, but (as one of the elements of vegan outreach) I think pushing for veganic produce is the missing link that could complete the puzzle. It's the next step if one is to come to a moral and logical conclusion in the quest to throw off the chains of animals as property. Are we vegans waiting for someone else to come along and promote/push awareness about it? Because no one will.
It's a good read if you are trying to cut cheese out of your diet and you need a little encouragement, however, the comparison of a cup of diced cheddar with a cup of carrots is a weak argument. Not many people (I hope!) sit down to a meal, which includes a whole cup of diced cheese. A better comparison would be cheese to a whole cup of nut butter, cheese to a whole cup of guacamole, cheese to a whole cup of tahini, a whole cup of Teese…well, you get the idea. You would still come out on top as none of those suggestions contain cholesterol, and while the fat content is comparable, these foods contain healthier fats. Similarly, most people don't sit down to a meal, which includes a whole cup of nut butter either.
Understand, I'm only offering constructive criticism; if you want you message to be reached by ALL people (not just vegetarians, vegans, and the lactose-intolerant, which would be preaching to the choir), hyperbole and unbalanced arguments only serve to discredit the message, with the average non-vegan dismissing it as propaganda. They won't believe it and they won't relate. Basically, it's like a “meatatarian” giving the argument that:
“veganism is bad for you, it will make you sick weak and anemic, eventually you will die, because humans need certain amino acids found only in animal products in order to live, and anyways, humans evolved to be omnivores, just look at our teeth and digestive systems, it's natural, and therefore veganism is unnatural – also, cows are delicious and have been bred by humans for so long that they have evolved to survive only as livestock (it's true, there have been studies and documentaries!), so really we need to eat them. And they are yummy. Plus, when was the last time your mouth watered when you smelled a barbequed carrot, as opposed to a barbecqued t-bone?”.
Convincing argument? I didn't think so either.
I would like to mention here that I do work on a small-scale organic family farm. We don't have any traps. We've never been “forced” to kill anything. It would sure be great of they didn't get into our greenhouse, but we have ways of protecting our plants without hurting the animals. So I can tell you, as a farmer, there is a way to farm without killing these various rodents.
I know that people have this idea in their heads that tilling the earth and running machinery kills rodents as well, but we have yet to find a dead rodent where we plow. It makes me curious to know where these numbers come from when I plant my food with my own hands and am 100% certain that I have not killed an animal to do it.
Thank you for the constructive criticism. This is one page out of a book that is 200 pages long. It is not meant to be the single most persuasive argument ever written to convince people that eating cheese is wrong. It is an argument written, as the preface to the entry clearly says, to convince would-be vegans who are having a hard time giving up cheese to give it up. It is written for a specific audience, in the context of an entire book that is full of more information on every point I discuss, from the problems with the dairy industry to the nutritional aspects of veganism. As such, it may seem a bit decontextualized here, but I thought it would be interesting enough to share with other vegans, and I posted it in particular because a near-vegan asked me how to give up cheese.
I do not intend for this message to be heard by ALL people, but however you look at it, I'm not using hyperbole (the nutritional data are direct from a nutritional database) and I'm not using “unbalanced arguments.” Everything I wrote above is factual. None of the facts are distorted. They are all verifiable. They are all cited in the book. This is such a simple and straightforward blog entry that I'm shocked that people have had such a hard time with it. I'm not even sure what there is to debate here. It is all patently true.
As for the cheese-carrots comparison, I don't think it is inapt. I'm talking about the health aspects of two different foods. Think about how little a cup of diced cheddar cheese is. In reality, if you're at a party where cubed cheese is served, it is conceivable that you could eat a cup of diced cubes without really too much effort. Well, at least when I ate dairy products, this was something of which I was capable. Your point about comparing it to nut butter is a fine one, but personally, I try to limit my intake of calorie-dense fatty foods, and when I was trying to cut back, there actually were times I would reach for a cup of baby carrots instead, because they were just as convenient.
What is inapt and also borderline offensive is your comparison of the “meatatarian” argument and my argument. Many things in the “meatatarian” “argument” are instantly refutable on a factual basis. Others are matters of opinion or are debated within scientific and academic circles and can be readily argued against. What I find offensive about your comparison is that everything — can I say it again? — EVERYTHING I post above is factual. I distort nothing. I do not engage in hyperbole. Most milk contains pus. Many cheeses are not even vegetarian. Large dairy operations are the norm, and the use of RFID tags to track herd productivity cycles is not new technology in the “industry,” and has been widely used for a very long time. Dairy calves are sent to slaughter young in most cases. Cheese is not health food. (Even half a cup — a modest amount of cheese — contains almost 70% of one's RDA for saturated fat.) I don't need hyperbole: I have the truth.
The thing is this: if the truth hurts people, it hurts them. I'm frustrated by these comments because they seem to imply that I'm wielding some kind of propaganda machine here, and I'm not. I'm presenting an impassioned argument, sure, but I write plainly about the issues, and the facts are irrefutable. If that bothers people, there's not a lot I can do about that.
Like all writing, this writing is done for a specific audience in a specific context. Were I trying to convince everyone and anyone of the problems with cheese, I'd go about it differently, but somehow I assumed that most people reading this blog would be vegans, and would get it
With that, I'm closing the comments, because I don't have time to monitor them any longer.
Comments on this entry are closed.